i'm shannon bream in for chris wallace. as the deadline approaches, the political pressure increases. republicans and democrats are talking tough, when just a month ago in the debt ceiling negotiations. is a deal still possible? we will ask john cornyn, one of the g.o.p. senate leaders. also with the terror attack rocks afghanistan, should the u.s. rethink the drawdown plan? we get on the ground assessment from those on the ground in foreign policy, senator joe lieberman and lindsey graham. what do the fundraising numbers tell us about the presidential field. we ask the sunday panel, which candid gaits are making a move -- candidates are making

a move and which are stalled. on this fourth of july weekend, actor gary sinise tells us how he wants to help the veterans and the wounded warriors. all right now on "fox news sunday." hello again, from fox news in washington. as the nation celebrates the fourth of july holiday weekend. it's getting to be crunch time in the capital in the high-stakes battle over increasing the debt ceiling. here to discuss where the negotiations stand is a member of the senate republican leadership, john cornyn. welcome back to sunday sunday. >> good morning. >> on friday, the treasury department reiterated what it told us. august 2 is the date we exhaust the borrowing authority under the current debt ceiling re cap what the president had to say this week about capitol hill and whether they're doing their job and your response as well. >> when they decide they're not happy with the fact at some point you have to make a choice, they step back and say well, you know, the president needs to get this done. they need to do their job. >> instead of going to philadelphia tonight and raising money, why didn't he

call senator mcconnell, speaker boehner, minority leader pelosi and majority leader reed in his office and sit down and do his job? >> at the philadelphia fundraiser that you mentioned there, the president said this deal could get done, "on the back of an envelope" but he says there is no political will. who is not doing their job? >> let's see his envelope. i haven't seen it. his own bipartisan fiscal commission made a sobering report called the moment of truth. he ignored it in the "state of the union." his own budget grows the debt by trillions of dollars in the next ten years and all he seems to do is to attack those who are trying to make responsible proposals to solve this problem. so, the only way this is going to get done is with the president of the united states and fortunately now, it's been kicked upstairs to the only guy who can make the deal.

that is the president. along with speaker boehner and mitch mcconnell. >> you're here because the senate cut the fourth of july recess short there have been skeptics whether it will make a difference. one of them is the democratic colleague. this is what she said, "just being here to huff and puff and blow the deficit away is posturing." even you have doubts. are you feeling more optimistic? >> the only people who can cut a deal initially are president obama, speaker boehner and mitch mcconnell in the senate. it has to pass the rapts and get at least 60 vote -- pass the house of representatives and it has to get 60 votes in the senate. we are running out of time. i'm concerned that the president by not seriously putting a proposal forward but criticizing those who have, we are running up against the deadline. they will try to present it as a fait accompli, no one has time to consider the implications and they'll say

you have to pass it or the economy is going down the tubes. that is irresponsible. >> some on capitol hill said absolutely no way they will vote for anything that involves a tax hike. the top republican in the senate mitch mcconnell said that, house speaker john boehner said. that you placed it differently. when we talk about the tax expenditures, the loopholes and breaks, you say it's a futful area for discussion. would you consider that a tax hike or raising taxes? how do you define what we're talking about when we talk about revenue? >> it's clear that the republicans are opposed to any tax hikes; particularly, during a fragile economic recovery. the last thing that employers need is further disincentives to not hire people. and that is what hire taxes would mean do we believe that tax reform is necessary? absolutely there is not enough time to get it done between now and august 2. but it ought to be the first thing we turn to the make the tax code more rational. we could bring down rates, bring down tax expenditure and

loopholes but make the nation competitive internationally. >> to be clear, talk about closing the tax loopholes, changes to the tax code. you don't consider it raising taxes? >> it's not raising rates. i have don't mean to be cute about the language. i think we taught bring the rates down to make it revenue-neutral. so as you eliminate the tax expenditures, if you bring the top rates down, that is revenue neutral, not racing taxes. >> do you think you will get other rank and file republicans on board with that way of viewing the issue of revenue? >> i think so. i think again, the president's own fiscal commission recognizes that our tax code is riddled with special interest loopholes and provisions that really don't make any sense anymore. we had a very important vote about the ethanol subsidy, which we voted overwhelmingly to repeal that. there is now a deal worked out the phase it out in a more sensible way. but yeah, this is a fruitful area for us to work on in a

bipartisan way. >> what about defense spending? how far would republicans be willing to go in that arena? >> the main reason the federal government exists in my view is protect the national security. when leon panetta was confirmed as the defense secretary, i asked him about the clinton era tax -- excuse me, the spending cuts in defense. worried, of course, there would be those who want to cash a peace dividend in a time america is at war in three places. he seemed to say he was sensitive to that there are things we can do to make the defense department, the pentagon more, run more like a business. for example, better financial management procedures. actually, the pentagon is incapable of producing an audible financial statement, congress said they have to do it by 2017 but they are not on a path to do it now. that's what we can do to make it more efficient to eliminate waste. we can't weaken our national security. >> let's talk about comments

that former president clinton made last night about this. he is urging president obama not to blink on the issue of compromise with republicans and he said if you won't move on issues of revenue, that what should come together is a mini deal. maybe debt ceiling extension that gets us through six or eight months. is there an appetite on the republican side to do that? >> the problem with a myny deal, we have a maxi problem. the big problems aren't going to go away if you cut a mini deal. all it does is delay the moment of truth. apt so i'd say better now than then. if we can't, then we'll take the savings we can get now and we will relitigate this as we get closer to the election. >> all right. in addition to dealing with the content of negotiating this deal, there is a p.r. battle involved here as well. senate majority leader harry reid has had a lot to say about what is standing in the way of getting something done. let's take a listen. >> the obstacle, and i want to be very clear, to finding common ground is republicans

stubborn insistence on proit canning tax funding and give-aways to corporations and individualindividuals that don'd the give-aways. >> the president has also framed this choice. earlier in week as kids going to college, or tax breaks for corporate jets. i mean it's something they said with the miles per hour public is an easy choice -- said that american public, an easy choice for them. what is the plan for that bat? >> senator reid has newfound religion with tax reform. we're willing to work with him and democrats to do that. the problem is i don't know if we can get it done between now and august 2. it should be something we do. i think the american people understand that raising taxes grows the size of the federal government. if there is one thing i think they told us on november 2010, they want government to get smaller, not bigger. they feel the government is too intrusive in their lives,

obamacare, the dodd-frank so-called reform bill. they just feel like the government has grown too big. the only way to get government smaller, more rational is cut spending, not raise taxes. i think we win that. >> how much has this turned into a political debate? senator schumer has words to say about that. that the g.o.p. may be using the economy and the struggle of average american throughout to their benefit, simply for 2012. here is his accusation. >> it's becoming clear insisting op a slash and burp approach may be part of the plan. it has a double benefit for republicans. it's ideologically tidy and it undermines economic recovery which they think helps them in 2012. >> playing politics with it? >> that is certainly false there is just no basis to it. you know, the president in his party are doing a good job of undermining the economy as it is. with the unemployment at 9.1%. higher than other type of the country. people with capital on the

sidelines because they don't know whether the taxes will get increased or regulators will overreach or what the cost of obamacare will be to their business. so, look, we're americans first. not members of any political party. we have want to do what is right for the country. but that kind of rhetoric doesn't particularly advance the ball. >> senator schumer also was asked about an interesting concept that bubbled up with some in the academic world and on the hill as well. the idea that the president may be constitutionally allowed to ignore the debt limit and continuing issuing debt because of phrase in the 14th amendment. this is what he said when asked about it. quit's certainly worth exploring. i think it needs a little more exploration and study." you are not only a lawyer but you have been a judge that zillionth option the bench as well. how do you fall on the legal debate? >> that is crazy talk. it's not acceptable for congress and the president not to do their job and the say somehow the president has the authority to basically do this by himself. we ought to sit down and work

together. and it shouldn't take the form of press conferences like the president gave last week, where he was semily the school arm, scolding congress for not getting its job done when, in fact, he is the one who has not stepped up to give us a proposal. we'd like to see what the proposal is. let's do it in the light of day, not in secret behind closed door negotiation. only spring it on the people saying it's this, take it or leave it, or there is financial calamity. >> i want to ask a foreign policy as well. this week, the senate will likely vote on bipartisan resolution to authorize what the president has done in libya. there are some caveats there. it comes up on tuesday. will you vote in favor of it? >> i'll vote against proceeding to this particular resolution but i have an alternative resolution we need to consider. first of all, we need to consider what is the goal of the mission in libya? i think the goal should be to depose gaddafi. the president likes to say well, that is our political

goal but not our military goal. those ought to be unified. then we need a plan from the president, not just a handoff to nato and say it's their problem, not mine. then we need to once the american people understand what the goal is and the means to achieve that goal, we will become unified behind this effort. >> all right, senator cornyn, thank you for your time and spending part of your fourth of july weekend with us. >> thank you. >> up next, senator graham and lieberman from afghanistan on the u.s. war efforts there and iran's meddling across that region.

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>> shannon: joining us now from kabul, afghanistan, are two key members of the senate armed services committee. independent joe lieberman and republican lindsey graham. senators, welcome back to "fox news sunday." >> good to be with you, shannon. thank you. >> shannon: i want to start with disturbing reports in the "wall street journal" that concern iran. senator graham, this question for you. they say that iran has, "smuggled rocket projectile, that results in the american troops and have given long-range rockets to taliban in afghanistan and increasing the insurgents' ability to hit u.s. and coalition positions from a safer position." in june, 14 u.s. service members were killed in combat in iraq and officials attribute the death to militias trained by the iran revolutionary guard. senator, what do we do about iran? >> well, i think people need

to understand why iran is doing this. the biggest nightmare for the ayatollah in iran is to have a democracy in iraq and afghanistan on their borders. so, yes, they are helping the taliban and trying to react to bring down the iraqi democracy and trying to undermine the efforts here. they're responsible for material coming in both countrys killing not only the american soldiers but the iraqi and afghan people. they are helping assad in syria. i hope people understand what iran is up to. their biggest nightmare is that the arab spring is successful, that we can pull off iraq and afghanistan in terms of representative democracy. they are going to fight to the bitter end. i hope we will be pushing back strong, i hope the president will condemn this. and put the iranians on notice that you are not going to undermine your two neighbors who are trying to be democracies without push-back here. >> shannon: senator lieberman, your colleague there mentioned their involvement, iran's involvement in syria.

how concerned are you about that? >> well, i'm very concerned about iran's involvement in iraq, afghanistan, and syria. and the fact is that senator graham said they have the blood of a lot of people on their hands, including hundreds of americans who have been killed in iraq, as a result of iranian training and equipping of extremists militias. but today, in syria, we know that the iranian revolutionary guard corps is there helping the dictator bashar assad murder his own people. it's why some of us are, senator graham and i and others are cosponsoring legislation to impose additional economic sanctions on people within leadership of government in iran, including particularly the ire rainian revolutionary guard corps. this is after all a fourth of

july weekend. we're celebrating freedom. not just for americans but the ideal of freedom. right now, people in arab world, including syria, fighting for their freedom. iran is doing everything it can, not only to suppress this freedom fighter uprising in syria, but, of course, they have murdered and suppressed their own people in iran. so, i would say that a day of reckoning is coming for this extremist regime in iran when the majority of iranians who yearn for freedom, see that dream come true. i hope we'll do everything we can to make it happen as soon as possible. >> senator graham, let's talk now specifically about afghanistan. we think about the attack earlier in week at the intercontinental hotel. 12 victims there. there has been a roadside bombing that killed 13 others. are you convinced that afghanistan would be ready as we make significant troop drawdowns? >> my concern about the

president's speech last week, he may have undercut the momentum we achieved in the last year. the last year has been phenomenal progress in terms of billing the afghanistan security forces. 90,000 additional afghan army and police forces. 6,000 a month are joining the armies now. in september of 2009. there were 1200 a month. so things were moving in the right direction. the enemy can mount spectacular attacks and we had them on their heels. this is what i fear, the announcement of accelerating withdrawal, which was not recommended by the generals, this is now the obama-biden strategy no military leader recommended the decision the president chose. so, it is now the obama-biden strategy. and my fear is that people are going to look this as a withdrawal, not a transition. we're hearing that all over the country uncernty creeping back in about -- uncertainty creeping back in about america and what we're up to. i worry this may have undercut the momentum.

i hope i'm wrong. time will tell. >> shannon: senator graham, you mentioned the president's decision-making process. i want to delve into that with you. he announced 30,000 plus troops will be withdrawn by afghanistan by the end of next year. hours before he announced that decision, there was a conference call with reporters with a senior administration official unnamed. here is what they said. "the president's decision was fully within the range of options that were presented to him." you asked lieutenant general john allen about that, the man asked to lead the war effort for the president in afghanistan. here was your exchange. >> is it fair to say, general allen, that was not one of the options presented to the president by general petraeus? >> it is a more aggressive option than that which was presented. >> my question is: was that a option? >> it was not. >> so i just want the country to understand that this is not the petraeus strategy any longer. >> shannon: in addition to those comments from general allen, you also note, of course, that general petraeus

and -- in addition to that, admiral mike mullen used the words that what the president chose to do was more aggressive than the options he was presented. has the white house been honest with us about how the decision was made? he is the commanderrer in chief, the president can make the decision do you think it was the right one? >> the commanderrer in chief can make any decision he would like. he should listen to the military commanderrers. i have am confident that the decision made by president obama was not one of the options given to him by the military commanders. he has chosen a different course, 10,000 out by the end of this year. all surge forces out by september. it's undercut the ability to have a second fighting season. all generals say they will stand by the decision. that is their job. it creates unnecessary risk and it has created risk. it has changed the momentum. people wondering what we're up to. the difference between transitioning and withdrawal is huge. it's seen now as an effort to withdrawal rather than transition. i just hope and pray that this

works out well. it came at a very critical time. we will see what the future holds. >> shannon: all right. senator lieberman i want to talk to you about lib yeah. let's turn to the topic now. here is what the president said earlier in week about what is going on there. >> i said to the american people, here is our narrow mission. we carried out the narrow mission in exemplary fashion. >> shannon: the president says he laid out a mission to the american people in an op-ed you coopted in the "wall street journal," senator lieberman, you wrote, "the obama administration has not done an adequate job making a public case for our intervention and its objective." what kind of clarity would you like to see from the president? >> well, you know, when you commit the american military, whether it's on the ground or in the kind of supportive role we play with our nato allies in libbia, you have to have a reason. our reason was that we were trying to stop gaddafi from massacring his open people and

stopping the movement of democracy through the arab world in the so-called arab spring. i think what i would like to see is the president making the case again for why we're doing this, and why it's important to our security, which i believe it is. secondly, i think that we have to be clear about what our goals are. even though different times the administration has said that we're not interested in overturning gaddafi, clearly we are. this is all about regime change. and freeing the people of libya from another brutal -- another time period when they will suffer brutal dictatorship. i know it's complicated. i think frankly, there wouldn't as much opposition in congress to our action in libya if there was a strong argument being made on behalf of why we are there. if we use the strength of the

nato allies when you go in a fight you can't be uncertain about it. if we use that strength, i think gaddafi will go and it will be a tremendous step forward for the arab world and cause of freedom there and throughout the world. bet for the united states. talk about blood on somebody's hands. gaddafi has a lot of american blood on his hands from the terrorist attacks that he sponsored against us going back to the 1980s. it's time for him to go. >> shannon: senator lieberman, i want to follow up with you. because you said our mission now essentially does include overthrowing his regime. does it also possibly include killing gaddafi? >> well, look, if gaddafi is killed, so be it. i'm not saying we are targeting him. but when you think of the thousands of people, including americans who have died because of gaddafi's decisions, then one way or another, it's time for him to leave power in libya.

>> shannon: all right, senator graham i want to ask you about the bipartisan. >> shannon? >> shannon: yes, sir go ahead, senator graham. >> i think everyone in the world believes if gaddafi were taken out, this would be over. if the goal is to protect the libyan people and their human rights, the best way to do that is break gaddafi's inner circle and get rid of gaddafi himself. i'm glad nato has taken the fight to tripoli. we should go after the inner circle and cut the head of the snake off. back to afghanistan, perception is reality. the difference between transitioning to afghan control in a reasoned way and withdrawalling from the fight is american is important. the perception i am finding on the ground that the announcement of the president is more of a withdrawn than transition. that has to be corrected or it could jeopardize the whole operations. remember what iran is up to. remember what syria is up to. remember what the taliban and our al-qaeda want. they want to dominate this region, to destroy what we're fighting for. which is basic freedom.

we are in a titanic struggle with unsave sorry characters -- unsavory characters. the outcome does matter to us. if we win and help the people, we're all safer. if the people fight back in the region are overtaken by the forces we'll all pay a price. a lot is at stake. >> i agree, and i just want to add on the fourth of july weekend, we're here because we were attacked from here on 9/11. and if we don't succeed here, and the taliban comes back in to power, we'll be attacked again. and there could be no greater threat to our security and our freedom, freedom that we celebrate on july 4. >> shannon: senator lieberman, senator graham, we thank you so for your time. safe travels to you both. coming up, our sunday panel talks campaign cash and what it means for g.o.p. field. back in a moment.

the president says just give me more time. and it could have been worse. it could have been worse for people who worked here at this plant. for them, this is as bad as it gets. >> shannon: president front runner mitt romney excoriating the issue. time now for the sunday group. bill kristol of "the weekly standard." nina easton of fortune

magazine. chris stirewalt. and kirsten powers. welcome to all of you. >> thank you. >> shannon: look at the numbers that we have insofar from the latest quarter of g.o.p. 2012 contenders and what we are looking for fundraising for them. we find romney at the top with estimate of 15 to 20 million. and tim pawlenty is neck in neck in the $4 million range. ron paul says more than $4.5 million. herman cain at $2.5 million. no reports from bachmann, gingrich or santorum. what do you make of the numbers? who are the winners and losers so far? >> the big winner is president obama because he has tens of millions of dollars. they are projecting half a million donors total, broad-based. they'll have all the money. they are making financial argument. alum rock has enough, bringing in enough dough to make inevitability argument, he has the cash to site through and get it done. tim pawlenty raises enough to stay viable but the numbers

aren't good enough. he can stay in through the ames straw poll, the next debate and make more one more argument. >> shannon: why not more traction for him or rick santorum? tim pawlenty is working hard in the key states like iowa. but it seems like in the polls it doesn't seem like he is catching on. >> he is having trouble catching on. the numbers become the race, they become the poll numbers. they start substituting for that at this point in the race. i have to say my husband is romney advisor, full disclosure. but this is bad news for tim pawlenty. i agree going back to the real, the real news this week is the obama numbers. republican numbers. obama numbers, $60 million. we will see a race that obama had $700 million he spent to mccain's $300 million. twice as much. i think, you know, the conventionm wisdom is the

republicans outspend the democrats. once again, the republicans are really far behind in this race going in to 2012. >> shannon: bill, you want to tack the question? >> money is overrated. [ laughter ] >> shannon: you do? signing over his paycheck. >> in 2008, john mccain could have had $7 billion and he would not have defeated barack obama once the economy crashed in mid-september. obama is the incumbent president. voters are not swayed by the 30-second ad. he has the economy and the foreign policy record. any confident republican makes it referendum on obama. i don't think pure money makes that difference. the obvious point in 2007 at this time, four years ago, hillary clinton outraised barack obama and mitt romney and rudy giuliani both out-raised john mccain. last i looked, hillary clinton was not the nomination in 2008 and neither was giuliani.

so in a move of citizen activism, internet ability to discover things beyond the 30-second ad. the focus on the money race, it matters. you have can't broke and rup a good campaign. you can raise money fast if you are michele bachmann, rick perry or ryan, all the people that have not gotten in or just got in, the obsession over who raised more money than someone else is overdone. >> money doesn't matter if you're john mccain who had run before and people knew who he was. it does matter for people who has to raise their profile. for a lesser candidate right now, like a pawlenty, if he had been able to raise a lot of money it would make a difference for him in terms of raising the recognition. a lot of money that obama raised recently, a lot goes to the dnc. in the end, he will raise a ton of money. it's better to have money than not have money. but you are right.

he is an incumbent and he has that advantage or disadvantage. however you see it there the other piece of money, though, is ground troops. what the obama administration has is labor. which they've got to keep happy. they have labor, potentially on the ground. they say you are not coming through for us. card check has not passed. we're not happy. so we are seeing the administration, end run congress and agency action, whether it's stopping the boeing building the nonunion plant in south carolina or the latest case, delta airlines voted three times not to unionize. now under investigation. because of that vote. pro-union action the white house is taking because the labor leaders made it clear you haven't come through with us in congress. >> shannon: let's hear from

joe biden. he speaking to a union group on friday, hinting at the relationship they have. take a listen. >> by the way, if you vote republicans -- this isn't political. i'm not supposed to say this. let me put it this way. don't come to me if you do! [ laughter ] you are on your own, jack! >> shannon: i don't know if he is truly worried that the longs of union employees are going to suddenly start voting for g.o.p. >> i think he was referring to the fact that the unions have been under assault by the republican governors. i think that it was a reference to that. i think what nina was talking about, though, i don't think the administration is doing any of the stuff because they're worried about the unions not supporting them. they're worried about the unions not supporting democrats running for congress. the reality is if you look back, barack obama built his own organization. and he really did not rely on other people. he was not, if the union

support him and don't support him, wouldn't have made a difference. >> the point of all of this is he does not have the organic enthusiasm he had when he ran in 2008. he beat hillary clinton and a blank slate where people projected the hope, dream. he was a mo rate, no, liberal, antiwar, this, smart defense guy. he was all of these things. now he has the run at barack obama who everybody knows. that sort of base support won't be there replicating that is hugely expensive. he will need every nickel of that money. >> joe biden spoke more truth than he realizes. a lot of union members vote republican. a third, even 40% of union members vote republican in 2008. in fact, the union leadership, no question how much the union leadership speaks for the members. it's important for the republican candidates to win over what we used to call the reagan democrats. many of whom are or have been

union members. >> remain in the private sector unions. >> shannon: so that point, here is what richard trumka, president of the afl-cio talking about loyalties. take a listen. >> it doesn't matter if candidates and parties are controlling the wrecking ball or simply standing aside to let it happen. the outcome is the same either way to us. if leaders aren't blocking the wrecking ball and advancing working families' interest, then working people will not support them. >> shannon: all right, bill, you have the argument that there may be an opening for republicans with unions. anybody else agree? >> not with the union leaders, obviously. union members. i think you definitely -- they are paying millions in dues that go in 2008 it was like $200 million in to these democratic campaign coffers. so, again, what you are seeing is the administration or the allies more to the point on the agencies, at the national

labor relations board, at something called the national mediation board. literally changing the rules to make it easier for unions to organize workplaces. unions are in trouble right now. the membership is down. the membership is down particularly in the private sector. only like 7% of the private sector, compared to 20% just as recently as the '80s. and they need to organize. they need more members. they need the dues, which they need to use, which they use in the nonpolitical cam papes as kirsten knows. >> shannon: all right. panel, thank you on the topic. we have to take a break. when we come back, the politics of the debt debate with both parties drawing a line in the sand. is it all just political posturing. stay tuned for answers. do woodchucks chuck wood? (high-pitched laughter)

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i'm confident that democrats and republicans in congress can find a way to give some ground, make some tough choices, and put their shoulders to the wheel to get this done for the sake of the country. >> the president and democrats in congress must recognize that their game plan is not working. >> that is president obama and republican senator dan cotes laying out the deep divide over solving the debt crisis. back with the panel. bim -- bill, let's start with you. it seems like we're at a stalemate. >> i think we are. the president says we can get a deal done, i'm pretty confident they won't get a deal done. it's not a bad thing. we have a huge election in 2008, president obama and the democrats won handily. they fought, they had a mandate for the new deal. a different approach from the villaraigosa bush years to addressing the problem. the republicans won a big election in 2010, when they think now with just -- with some justification with a mandate. it's hard to think that democrats elect president

obama to compromise when they have different visions about the size and scope of the government. i think that the best thing could happen is to find enough to agree on, moderate spending cut, to kick the can down the road past 2012 and have the 2012 election as a debate whether the 2008 vision is correct, or 2010 vision is correct. >> shannon: this week, chuck schumer said republicans are trying to leverage this for 2012 and blatantly accusing them of using this for election purposes. >> and obama is not? >> shannon: anything that happens right now is viewed through a political prism. >> i have to say aside from the philosophical divide which is real, the president has an m.o. that he is scolding people. he is scolding the republicans at the "state of the union" and his colleagues when they didn't like the tax break, he invited republicans to the speech earlier this spring

about the budget. scolded them to their face about extenting an invitation. this week, we hear them scold him because they're not like his daughters and not able to complete their homework assignment on time. there is something about the mannerism that doesn't scream come to me. let's make a deal and see where we can hammer things out. it's unclintonnian i have to say. [ laughter ] i think speaking of clinton, he is probably right, and bill is right, there will be a mini deal that kicks the can down the road. i think they are more divided now than they were monday. >> shannon: chris, you had a visceral reaction when bill said they won't reach a deal. >> look, the problem for the president in all of this is he can have a deal anytime he wants. he is driving the bus. he can stop at any moment. he feels tremendous pressure from markets, tremendous pressure from the largest question that looms over his re-election, which is the condition of the economy.

he needs a deal quickly. he can stop today. they have a deal in principle, with $1.4 billion in cuts with cap extension to cut. it takes them maybe not to 2012 election but close. a year's worth of borrowing probably. he can stop this buggy anytime he wants and they can have a deal. but he is afraid to do that because of two things. one he wants to make sure they get it past the election so he doesn't go through it next summer. the other problem is as nina pointed out he took a lot of blowback for extenting the bush tax rate. a big deal. the supporters didn't like it. he feels the political pressure to push it to the end. every day longer he goes, the less the markets like it and the more damage to economy it does. >> shannon: in his press conference this week, the question was whether he will come out as conciliatory or sounding like someone ready to fight. a lot of people think he is speaking to the base being hard on republicans but maybe it bought him room with them, so if he has to come back at

some point and say we didn't get the tax hike for the revenue that we wanted. at least i was being tough on them. what do you make of that? >> i don't think so. if he caves on this, you know, it will be more like what bill is saying, kick it down the road. say they don't and they make a substantive deal where he doesn't get the revenue he wanted. it will be the third time now that he has caved in, in a short time with the tax cuts and the government shutdown. and i think that i quibble a little bit with the idea that the base cares about this. i think it's more like the latte liberals care about this. the base is the union and african-americans and working class white voters. that is not a minor thing. the media starts this and could talk a drum beat of obama's wee weak and rolled by people. the other thing to remember is a lot of the tea party members, they don't believe that this sug 2 date is real. you are dealing with people who aren't willing to deal.

so his best case scenario is to kick the can down the road. >> the only incentive against that is that i think house republicans don't want to keep voting on this. i think the house republican leadership, this is a difficult vote for them. and i think if they could solve it now, they would rather do it now than do this all, this exercise all over again. >> one thing not to forget is they can extend the debt ceiling by days or dollars. it doesn't have to be a monetary set amount. they can come up with a deal that said we will honor every obligation of the federal government to "x" date. that is always on the table. republicans are waiting there to kick the can for two months and roll it in the budget negotiations that will take place in september anyway. advance the ball and move it on. they can do that. >> i want to ask you, who do think will be the key players who settle this thing? we have had game six, the vice president leading bipartisan, bicameral talks. we know the democrats will meet with the white house this week. who crunches the numbers and gets it done? >> if you take it, i would

rather be a mini deal. i guess we use the expression kick the can down the road too many times in the last two weeks but we are using it because it's realistic. we get extension of a few months. i think one thing it will affect the republican presidential race in interesting ways and to come back to the first panel discussion, two members of congress are running for office. michele bachmann and ron paul. safe bet that michele bachmann will want to oppose almost any deal. oppose the debt ceiling hike. tim pawlenty, what does rick perry say about that? if it is six or eight months down the road there will be a presidential nominee. what will he or she have to say about a possible deal? that person is the leader of the republican party. i am struck -- we talk about the presidential race and what is happening in washington, but the two come together at some point. and pretty soon. it becomes a real question i think for the republicans, for the republican party as a whole. are they in the business of cutting deals to help president obama increase our

debtedness $2 trillion or in the business of forcing the showdown and at least keeping to principles and limiting the damage done by president obama to win in november 2012? there are interesting tactical and strategic decisions for republicans moving ahead. >> i argue they have to go beyond not allowing the tax increases. they need the tax reform. serious tax reform to bring down the corporate rate and close the loophole to enable you to do that. level playing field and make it more investor friendly country for companies to build in. they need to take time to look at that, tax reform. >> shannon: if they have a hard time getting a budget done and getting the debt ceiling done who thistles the appetite for tackling the tax cut? >> as james baker said to me not long ago, doing that, you have gives on both sides because the democrats get to

close loopholes and republicans get to lower the corporate tax rate. >> i am the only conservative republican in the country that does not think lowering the corporate tax rate is the key to the future. corporations have billions of dollars. how come they have the money? they're not hiring. tax rate on labor is more onerous in my view than tax rate on corporations. nonetheless, this is why the deal can't happen in a year. a lot of debates have to happen among republicans. michele bachmann has a different view of the tax future than mitt romney. this isn't going to happen before. >> i think president obama had a choice six months ago he could have done a big deal. cruise to re-election by a bipartisan deal, taxes, debt, and they chose against that and now nothing will happen substantively until after the election. >> shannon: time word to you. >> i wouldn't rule it out. i heard people talk about possibly look at the tax code.

i think it's a possibility. >> not able to get it done in the next month. >> shannon: happy fourth of july to you. hope you have big plans for weekend. thank you so much. >> what plans do we have? >> happy fourth to you. >> shannon: negotiating. thank you. thank you, panel. all right. see you next week. don't forget to check out panel plus, the group will continue this discussion on the website foxnewssunday.com. and we will post the video before noon eastern time. up next, actor gary sinise and his salute to our troops. [ waves crashing ] ♪ ♪

[ male announcer ] and just like that, it's here. a new chance for all of us: people, companies, communities to face the challenges yesterday left behind and the ones tomorrow will bring. prudential. bring your challenges. >> shannon: and finally, actor gary sinise who was in town this holiday weekend to

launch a foundation to provide entertainment and education, for veterans, first responders and those in need. mr. sinise, welcome to "fox news sunday." >> thank you for having me. >> shannon: something folks may not know is that you started your involvement in supporting our military decades ago, long before everybody came to know you as lieutenant dan in the "forest gump" movie. what motivated you to get involved? >> various things, veterans and my family for one. on my wife's side, her brothers served in vietnam in the early '80s i spent time with them talking about their experiences. i have vietnam veteran friends in the chicago area. i got very involved with the vietnam vet raps group -- veteran groups through the theater company. i have a theater company there, steppenwolf. we have started the veterans programs. i played a vietnam veteran in forest gump and i got involved with the disabled veterans. played a disabled vet. i was con evacuated by d.a.v. and i got actively involved

with them. along came september 11, and i dove in the active duty folks. trying to help them. serve their needs and draw attention to what they are going through. >> shannon: reading through the things that you have done and all you do and plan to do, it's exhausting. it's a passion for you that you care about folks serving the country and who have served. you launch a foundation that does many different things. what is it all about? >> i have been very busy over the years. participated in the programs through the other organizations, having gone to help raise money for the organizations that are doing good things for the troops. the military families. entertaining them. i just found myself at a certain limit of how much i can attend and do things. how do you ramp up from there? when you can't be any, anywhere else throughout the year?

i decided to create the entity, gary sinise foundation in order to be able to point people toward programs that are working out there, that i have interacted with over the years. that i continue to support. to create programs like scholarships for veterans and the wounded warrior support. to be able to take in additional funding. a lot of the stuff i do costs money. sometimes i bring in sponsors or donate myself or fund things myself. i put a lot of my own financial -- luckily, i have a successful television show, so i have been able to fund some of that money to the good programs. i want people to know that there is a way they can support what i'm doing. through that, support me. i support the other folks that are out there doing good things. helping the troops. >> shannon: you have done 40-plus troops. you have a band. lieutenant dan band.

you travel around. a new documentary is coming out on july 4 that chronicles what you do and it highlights men and women that you perform for and their service. it's touching in a clip, a young soldier says it makes us feel like someone believes in us, when you show up and perform. >> well, i get such a great reward out of being able to do it. it's nice to know that there is something you can do to help. one of the motivators is remembering what happened to our vietnam vet reasons when they came home from war. i remember when we deployed to afghanistan and iraq i want to make sure when the troops came home or when they were in the field that they knew they were appreciated. people are paying attention to what they are doing. i started to go out there and perform for them. i have been doing it for many years. a friend of mine heard about it. a filmmaker who asked me if he could come and document it. now they put a documentary together called lieutenant dan ban for the common good.

for common good there means you meet a lot of people doing good things in the movie. if you go to ltdanmanmovie.com july 4 for 30 days you can put in $4, watch the film, and one out of every $4 generously is vo dated from the fill -- donated to the gary sinise foundation. >> shannon: thank you for all that you are doing to spotlight and serve those who serve the rest of us. >> my pleasure. thank you. >> shannon: thank you so much. that is it for today. enjoy your fourth of july but take a minute or two from the picnic, parade and the family activity to think about what a great country we share. we leave you fireworks and the sounds of lieutenant dan's band. we'll see you next "fox news sunday." >> ♪ god bless the usa captioned by closed captioning services, inc